#  > Engineering Exams & Institutes - All about Indian Engineering Colleges >  > JEE Advanced 2013 & Related Discussion >  >  IIT-JEE 2011 Colleges Discussions Index - Ask & Get Queries resolved about any IIT, IT-BHU, ISM Dhanbad etc.

## FaaDoO-Engineer

Hi Aspiring FaaDoO Engineers!

Rampaging college related discussion has been going on FaaDoO Forums  ever since the mother of all engineering entrance exams, THE IIT-JEE got over. Several threads have been created by seniors  from various IITs and others to guide prospective juniors and share their  colleges info with them. 

Just to make life a little easier for all you aspiring FaaDoOs, I am  creating an INDEX of college discussions. So if you want to discuss or  ask a query about any college simply look for it in the index and click  on its corresponding link to be taken to its thread... 

*--IIT-JEE 2011 College Discussions INDEX--* 


*IIT Kharagpur:* http://www.faadooengineers.com/threads/2068-IIT-Kharagpur-2011-Admission-Cut-Offs-Rank-Placements-Fees-Procedures-Discussion

*IIT Bombay:* http://www.faadooengineers.com/threads/783-IIT-Bombay-2011-Admissions-Cut-Offs-Ranking-Placements-Fees-Procedures-Discussion

*IIT Kanpur:* http://www.faadooengineers.com/threads/2067-IIT-Kanpur-2011-Admission-Cut-Offs-Rank-Placements-Fees-Procedures-Discussion

*IIT Delhi:* http://www.faadooengineers.com/threads/785-IIT-Delhi-2011Admissions-Cutoffs-Ranking-Placements-Fees-Procedures-Discussion

*IIT Madras:* http://www.faadooengineers.com/threads/2065-IIT-Madras-2011-Admission-Cut-Offs-Rank-Placements-Fees-Procedures-Discussion

*IIT Roorkee:* http://www.faadooengineers.com/threads/2058-IIT-Roorkee-2011-Admission-Cut-Offs-Rank-Placements-Fees-Procedures-Discussion

*IIT Guwahati:* http://www.faadooengineers.com/threads/2056-IIT-Guwahati-2011-Admission-Cut-Offs-Rank-Placements-Fees-Procedures-Discussion

*IT BHU:* http://www.faadooengineers.com/threads/2057-IT-BHU-2011-Admission-Cut-Offs-Rank-Placements-Fees-Procedures-Discussion

*ISM Dhanbad:* http://www.faadooengineers.com/threa...res-Discussion
 *
More colleges will be added to this list as when a thread is started for them...Go FaaDoOs!*





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## Manoj

*High Court Directs JEE to find ways to fill vacant seats in IIT's

*Recently, the Honorable High Court of Andhra Pradesh has passed an order  directing JEE to find ways to fill up the vacant seats in 15 IITs, IT  BHU, and ISM Dhanbad. Here is a link to download a copy of the order.

Since only the judgment is on the web, it is difficult to know the exact  argument of all stake holders, but what I can make out from the  judgment is the following.

The petitioner is a student of ISM Dhanbad, who got admission to the  Institute in 2010 after passing the Joint Entrance Examination. When the  results of the first round of counseling were announced, she was  allotted MSc (Chemistry) in ISM Dhanbad. She paid her fee, etc., as per  the JEE procedure. If you recall, last year, there was an error in the  counseling. The Counseling software had not taken into account the  results of the Architecture aptitude test. When this error was detected  and corrected, it turned out that the course allotment of several  students had to be canceled. This student was one of them. There were 52  such students. She got lucky that at least she could get a program  allotted. She was assigned MSc (Mathematics and Computing). By the only  41 students could get some course in the second round. Eleven students  had no where to go (even though as we will see later, there were  hundreds of seats vacant in the system).

After this the details are sketchy. She apparently wanted a better  branch. ISM Dhanbad refused saying that the branch changes will be done  after 2nd semester, based on performance in the 1st year. However, she  noticed that the rules in ISM Dhanbad did not allow too many people to  get branch change. The rules said a student is not allowed to leave a  branch, if that would cause the strength of the program to become less  than 50%. A very large number of students who had been offered admission  to ISM Dhanbad had not joined, leaving more than 250 vacancies in the  Institute. This meant that many programs would have less than 50% seats  filled up. Or the number of branch changes that would be permitted would  be extremely few. So, she appealed to High Court that JEE should have  filled up those huge number of vacant seats in all the institutes put  together, and if such a thing was done in 2010, she would have got a  better program to begin with.

JEE responded to the writ petition by arguing that it is not possible to  keep doing multiple rounds of admission, since the classes have to  start at some time. And IITs have such a high standard of academics that  doing admission even a few days into the semester would be harmful to  the quality of education.

The court asked for information on the number of vacant seats after the  students had joined various institutes. It turned out that the number of  seats vacant were 8% of the total seats available through JEE. The  court has said that based on JEE's argument, if there were a small  number of seats vacant, it would have accepted the situation. But the  argument cannot justify such a large number of vacant seats,  particularly when JEE could have started the admission process a bit  earlier, and tried to incorporate another round of admission process.

For 2010 admissions, the court has asked ISM Dhanbad to allot any of the  vacant seats to the student in question before doing its branch  changes. And for 2011 admissions, it has asked JEE to do whatever it  deems fit to make sure that such a large number of seats are not left  vacant.

This is an excellent judgment which will make JEE more student friendly.  However, there is one aspect of the whole admission process which has  not been clearly understood by the court. *If JEE were to do a 3rd round of counseling, it would still leave 8% of the seats vacant,* unless the 3rd round was done AFTER the semester started.

Let us understand why third round prior to the semester would not help.  The reasons for vacant seats is NOT that students who are offered seats  do not accept it. Such a number is rather small after the 2nd round. The  reason for vacant seats is that students accept the admission offer by  paying whatever amount is needed, and then never inform JEE that they  would like to withdraw. They just don't show up on the campus on the 1st  day of the semester. So you can have any number of rounds prior to the  semester beginning, and you still wouldn't know how many people won't  show up on the appointed day.

So what is the solution. There are, in fact, several solutions possible.

The obvious one that Central Counseling Board (which does counseling for  all NITs based on AIEEE ranks) makes use of is to offer admission after  the semester has started. The assumption with which CCB works is that  teaching is unimportant and even if a student misses a few days, nah a  few weeks, may be half the semester, it is still ok for him/her to get  admission. The underlying assumption appears to be that teaching in most  such places is so poor that it is perhaps better for the student to not  face such teaching :-) But JEE can't make such an assumption, and it  has correctly argued in the court that late admissions will result in  poorer quality of education.

The second solution is to admit more students than the number of seats  that you have. This is the solution that every single country in the  world follows (other than India, of course). In India, we believe, we  are very unique. Our problems are very unique. So nothing that works in  the rest of the world will work in India. (Of course, the corollary is  that what does not work in the rest of the world will also not work in  India.) And, therefore, we must do opposite of what the rest of the  world does, and consider our seats as sacrosanct.

But, if somehow JEE can come out of this anti-rest-of-the-world feeling,  then what they may do is to look at historical data about the  percentage of students who don't join a particular institute, and admit  that many extra students to each institute. So if we have 500 unreserved  seats (since we need to do this category wise), and 10% students did  not join on an average in the last 5 years, then may be I can admit 8%  more (to be on the conservative side - I don't want to exceed my target  strength, not by large number, anyway). So, we shall admit 540, and if  10% did not join, I will still have 486 students as opposed to 450 in  the current scenario. Yes, there is a risk that I might have 510  students. But the question is that if you have capacity to deal with 500  students properly and in the best way that you want to deal with them,  would you rather have 450 students and waste a significant investment,  or would you rather live with a very small probability of 510 students  in some year (and hence the quality of education for that batch  presumably going down).

Of course, the immediate question will be what branch to assign to these  extra students. It is assumed that the students will give a choice  during the counseling that they are willing to be admitted to an  Institute without any assignment of a program. So someone, for example,  could give a higher preference for IITB-NONE compared to  ISM-Dhanbad-Mining-BTech. On the joining date at an institute, we will  know how many students in each category have joined. Based on this data,  we know vacancies in each program in each category. We can do an  internal branch change of each student based on their preferences in JEE  counseling, and by this process, the unassigned students will get some  program assigned to them. It is assumed that when they opt for  unassigned seat, they are actually willing to take any program in the  Institute. So if they have not put in all the choices during the JEE  counseling, they could be given a random seat.

The problem will come when the number of vacancies (or people not  joining) is less than the number of students admitted against unassigned  seats. In such a case, each institute will take its own decision on how  to assign programs to these people. The easiest will be to increase the  number of seats in each program by same proportion. If there are 10  programs, and there are 10 unassigned students, increase 1 seat in each  program.

This has a downside. Most of the JEE selected candidates - while they  may have solved hugely complex mathematical problems in JEE, they will  now claim that they don't understand probability and statistics. They  will make statements like this: If you have 500 seats and you are  admitting 8% extra, then theoretically you could have 540 students. It  means that at least in such a case, you will somehow manage 540  students. Then why not admit 540 students anyway. The only answer to  this question is that if you do not understand probability and  statistics, then you don't deserve to be in an IIT. We will take your  name off the JEE merit list.

There is a solution number 3. This is to somehow have an incentive for  the student to inform JEE in advance that he has decided not to take  admission. What could be such an incentive. How about returning some of  the money that you charge them. Right now, JEE asks for Rs. 40,000 to be  deposited for accepting admission, and whether you decide to withdraw  the next day or 2 weeks later, you don't back a single paisa. If we  could have a sliding scale. If you withdraw within a day, we will give  you back most of the money, if you withdraw within a week, we will  deduct some more, and so on. Then there is an incentive for people to  decide fast and communicate that decision to JEE.

The problem with this scheme is that the Government has mandated that  anyone leaving the program till the day of beginning of the semester,  has to be refunded the entire amount (except a token processing fee of  Rs. 1,000). IITs currently are below the radar of the government, and  don't get hauled up when they don't give any refund. But if they start  giving refund, they will have to follow this policy of 100% refund. This  policy of 100% refund has played havoc with admission process in India.  Ever since this rule has been made in 2007, most admissions are now  done after the beginning of the semester in most colleges across the  country.  Strangely, most students and parents believe that this refund rule is  very good, not realizing how it has destroyed education in NITs, and  other good institutes, and how it is actually making more money for  private colleges, since most admissions are now happening after the  beginning of the semester, where the refunds are not controlled by this  rule anyway.

So, IITs may have to argue with MHRD to junk this rule and come with an  alternate scheme with gradations for refund depending on how many days  before the semester the student is withdrawing.

Of course, there is a 4th solution. IIT Directors can agree that after  the 2nd round of counseling, each Institute can decide on its own  whether they want to do more admissions, and do those admissions in  whatever way they deem fit (increase ad hocism). Of course, JEE could go  to Supreme Court and not do anything on the ground this year.

The right thing to do is to do both 2nd and 3rd solutions. Admit  additional students, and have a graded refund policy. Doing these things  together will clean up the admission process not just in IITs, but in  all engineering colleges, since they will then be able to do the same  thing.

In my opinion, this high court ruling is a godsend to IITs to improve  their admission process without political interference or too much media  glare. After all, they will be following the legal mandate. I hope they  will do something that will have a positive impact on all engineering  admissions throughout the country.

In the end, I will like to just give out the vacant seats last year in  old IITs, BHU and ISM in unreserved and OBC categories (combined). IITB  (2/663), IITD (5/640), IITK (8/622), IITM (10/630), IIT-GHY (20/442),  IIT-KGP (54/1008), IIT-R (114/866), IT-BHU (146/785), ISM (213/760).

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## mayukh

sir,
i got AIR 6001 in iit jee 2011.
my ques is that what is the scope of doing msc courses frm iit.. what kind of jobs they get??
are they highly paid??
my aieee rank is 5846. so is it good to take upmsc courses or i shud take admission in some nit???

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## studmax_iitkgp

> sir,
> i got AIR 6001 in iit jee 2011.
> my ques is that what is the scope of doing msc courses frm iit.. what kind of jobs they get??
> are they highly paid??
> my aieee rank is 5846. so is it good to take upmsc courses or i shud take admission in some nit???


Dude if u want to do research go for Msc, else join the likes of NIT Trichy, Warangal, etc!

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## mayukh

> Dude if u want to do research go for Msc, else join the likes of NIT Trichy, Warangal, etc!


 sir i want to knw that wht options i wil hav aftr doing msc..
i want to do job aftr completion of the course,, so what kind of jod will i have???
plz specify abt msc n physics, chemistry, app. geology & economics.

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